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	<title>Comments for Pursue the Beauty!</title>
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	<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com</link>
	<description>reflections on the intermix of beauty, grace, and suffering</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 13:34:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Emotional Purity and Emotional Fornication &#8211; preview by Elizabeth Devine</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/31/emotional-purity-and-emotional-fornication-preview/comment-page-1/#comment-2242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elizabeth Devine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 13:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2930#comment-2242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the emotional purity thing - that yes once too I espoused was harmful in many ways. 

For one it was taken to an impossible extreme. I mean really until the guy asked to court you - you were not to &quot;like&quot; him in any way but as a &quot;brother&quot;? But then you enter a relationship that is &quot;for marriage&quot; with someone you had &quot;no feelings for&quot; but a floodgate opens in the new &quot;courting&quot; relationship of emotions because... you are supposed to have the intention of marrying... which goes into why I think courtship was more damaging than dating. Dating break ups I&#039;m sure are hard, especially hard when it&#039;s been a long term relationship... but courting has this &quot;I&#039;m supposed to marry this person&quot; &quot;if all works out&quot; that is... so your heart is MUCH more vulnerable. And the break up is way worse. But that&#039;s about courtship... I&#039;ve read the Emotional Purity book ages ago.

 Heather also seemed to take a &quot;no relationships with guys at all&quot; approach because we just &quot;can&#039;t keep our hearts&quot;... As a woman who had a few close (very close) guy friends, who I truly had no romantic attachment too I can attest that is not the case. One can be friends with a person of the opposite gender without wanting to have sex with them, date them, or marry them or any intention besides friendship (and yes I know it was true on the guy&#039;s part not just mine)... I&#039;m great friends with his wife and he is one of my husband&#039;s best friends now... My husband had similar good girl friends with whom I am good friends with now and it didn&#039;t bother me in the least. I am of the opinion that having friends of the opposite gender is healthy, it brings balance to our lives, gives us perspective, and is edifying. And I don&#039;t think liking one of the opposite gender means cutting off a friendship. The best relationships should grow out of good friendships.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the emotional purity thing &#8211; that yes once too I espoused was harmful in many ways. </p>
<p>For one it was taken to an impossible extreme. I mean really until the guy asked to court you &#8211; you were not to &#8220;like&#8221; him in any way but as a &#8220;brother&#8221;? But then you enter a relationship that is &#8220;for marriage&#8221; with someone you had &#8220;no feelings for&#8221; but a floodgate opens in the new &#8220;courting&#8221; relationship of emotions because&#8230; you are supposed to have the intention of marrying&#8230; which goes into why I think courtship was more damaging than dating. Dating break ups I&#8217;m sure are hard, especially hard when it&#8217;s been a long term relationship&#8230; but courting has this &#8220;I&#8217;m supposed to marry this person&#8221; &#8220;if all works out&#8221; that is&#8230; so your heart is MUCH more vulnerable. And the break up is way worse. But that&#8217;s about courtship&#8230; I&#8217;ve read the Emotional Purity book ages ago.</p>
<p> Heather also seemed to take a &#8220;no relationships with guys at all&#8221; approach because we just &#8220;can&#8217;t keep our hearts&#8221;&#8230; As a woman who had a few close (very close) guy friends, who I truly had no romantic attachment too I can attest that is not the case. One can be friends with a person of the opposite gender without wanting to have sex with them, date them, or marry them or any intention besides friendship (and yes I know it was true on the guy&#8217;s part not just mine)&#8230; I&#8217;m great friends with his wife and he is one of my husband&#8217;s best friends now&#8230; My husband had similar good girl friends with whom I am good friends with now and it didn&#8217;t bother me in the least. I am of the opinion that having friends of the opposite gender is healthy, it brings balance to our lives, gives us perspective, and is edifying. And I don&#8217;t think liking one of the opposite gender means cutting off a friendship. The best relationships should grow out of good friendships.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Stacy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacy McDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 15:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Silvia, I can appreciate your concerns, but again, I think it depends on how we define courtship. It obviously means drastically different things to different people. By our family&#039;s definition, our married daughters were able to develop a relaxed loving relationship during the course of their courtships, while still guarding their hearts. While it was understood from the beginning that this was a pursuit of marriage, the couples were encouraged to always remember that &quot;this still may be someone else&#039;s future spouse.&quot; 

This helped them to view their suitor as a brother in Christ, and helped them to evaluate the relationship intellectually, while building a solid friendship that was free of the rose-colored-glasses syndrome. 

Again, we can&#039;t trust in &quot;methods,&quot; so to speak. Courtship, no matter how it plays out, is not an inoculation against sin or deception; but, I still believe the principles we&#039;ve applied in our family (regardless of whether you call it courtship or something else) have, by God&#039;s grace, been very helpful to our children, and have been a huge protection against heartbreak and serious mistakes.

Again, I think if we define courtship as a semi-engagement then we may be asking for trouble. But neither do I want a guy pursuing the heart of one of our daughters with no intention of ever marrying her. I don&#039;t see any sort of precedent for that in Scripture. We&#039;re to apply wisdom and discretion to all of life. 

[Link removed]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Silvia, I can appreciate your concerns, but again, I think it depends on how we define courtship. It obviously means drastically different things to different people. By our family&#8217;s definition, our married daughters were able to develop a relaxed loving relationship during the course of their courtships, while still guarding their hearts. While it was understood from the beginning that this was a pursuit of marriage, the couples were encouraged to always remember that &#8220;this still may be someone else&#8217;s future spouse.&#8221; </p>
<p>This helped them to view their suitor as a brother in Christ, and helped them to evaluate the relationship intellectually, while building a solid friendship that was free of the rose-colored-glasses syndrome. </p>
<p>Again, we can&#8217;t trust in &#8220;methods,&#8221; so to speak. Courtship, no matter how it plays out, is not an inoculation against sin or deception; but, I still believe the principles we&#8217;ve applied in our family (regardless of whether you call it courtship or something else) have, by God&#8217;s grace, been very helpful to our children, and have been a huge protection against heartbreak and serious mistakes.</p>
<p>Again, I think if we define courtship as a semi-engagement then we may be asking for trouble. But neither do I want a guy pursuing the heart of one of our daughters with no intention of ever marrying her. I don&#8217;t see any sort of precedent for that in Scripture. We&#8217;re to apply wisdom and discretion to all of life. </p>
<p>[Link removed]</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by bea</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 15:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Because after all, if people are sinful and flawed, so is the courtship process, as it was invented by people.  However well-intentioned they were.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because after all, if people are sinful and flawed, so is the courtship process, as it was invented by people.  However well-intentioned they were.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by bea</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 14:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I think this is one of the first former courtship proponents I&#039;ve ever seen who points out that not only the people but the SYSTEM of courtship is flawed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think this is one of the first former courtship proponents I&#8217;ve ever seen who points out that not only the people but the SYSTEM of courtship is flawed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by silvia</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[silvia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 13:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s one thing I don&#039;t understand: You mention that it&#039;s essential to &quot;guard your heart&quot; throughout courtship. If so, when are you actually allowed to _fall in love_ with this person you&#039;ve already tentatively signed on to marry? After the engagement? Even that would not exclude the possibility of heartbreak; sadly, some courtships do end at that stage. 

Discretion and good judgment are key in any romantic relationship, but young people should not enter into courtship assuming it offers protection against a broken heart. We all know of many failed courtships, as well as the broken hearts that can (and often do) go along with them, even though some people try to sweep evidence of this under the rug.

Natalie&#039;s point is that by refraining from making marriage the objective right at the beginning of a relationship, women may be in a better position to evaluate the character and long-term compatibility of their suitors--and may feel more freedom to end an unsuitable relationship if necessary. 

In courtship culture, because relationships are by definition serious at the outset, it&#039;s easy to feel locked in by the commitment you&#039;ve already made to a person, determined to stick things out even if there are red flags. (This is especially true for women who, because of their relative isolation from the world, fear they may never have a realistic marriage prospect again.) And since the courting couple are seldom allowed to spend time alone together, some potential red flags may never even appear until after marriage, at which point we get situations like Natalie&#039;s heartbreaking one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s one thing I don&#8217;t understand: You mention that it&#8217;s essential to &#8220;guard your heart&#8221; throughout courtship. If so, when are you actually allowed to _fall in love_ with this person you&#8217;ve already tentatively signed on to marry? After the engagement? Even that would not exclude the possibility of heartbreak; sadly, some courtships do end at that stage. </p>
<p>Discretion and good judgment are key in any romantic relationship, but young people should not enter into courtship assuming it offers protection against a broken heart. We all know of many failed courtships, as well as the broken hearts that can (and often do) go along with them, even though some people try to sweep evidence of this under the rug.</p>
<p>Natalie&#8217;s point is that by refraining from making marriage the objective right at the beginning of a relationship, women may be in a better position to evaluate the character and long-term compatibility of their suitors&#8211;and may feel more freedom to end an unsuitable relationship if necessary. </p>
<p>In courtship culture, because relationships are by definition serious at the outset, it&#8217;s easy to feel locked in by the commitment you&#8217;ve already made to a person, determined to stick things out even if there are red flags. (This is especially true for women who, because of their relative isolation from the world, fear they may never have a realistic marriage prospect again.) And since the courting couple are seldom allowed to spend time alone together, some potential red flags may never even appear until after marriage, at which point we get situations like Natalie&#8217;s heartbreaking one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Stacy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacy McDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 13:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Natalie, I&#039;m really, really sorry I seem to have upset you. That certainly wasn&#039;t my intention at all! When I said you &quot;couldn&#039;t know that for sure,&quot; I was only pointing out that we can&#039;t know the future of circumstances that never happened; however, if you feel certain about this, I have no desire of convincing you of anything else. I&#039;m also very sorry for what you&#039;ve been through. Though I know  none of the details, I can relate to your pain.

As you may know, I went through similar circumstances when I was your age. [Link removed]

I dated a lot before I married Jessica&#039;s birth father. And I had my heart broken (and broke a lot of hearts) before getting emotionally and physically involved with him. It&#039;s hard to explain how easy it is to get sucked into relationships that are unhealthy once emotions are involved.

Though courtship is certainly no inoculation against deception or sin, at least (depending on how you define courtship) there is a greater chance that discernment is used and hopefully parents or others will see red flags before emotions (and hormones) are heavily engaged. 

Blessings to you, sister.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Natalie, I&#8217;m really, really sorry I seem to have upset you. That certainly wasn&#8217;t my intention at all! When I said you &#8220;couldn&#8217;t know that for sure,&#8221; I was only pointing out that we can&#8217;t know the future of circumstances that never happened; however, if you feel certain about this, I have no desire of convincing you of anything else. I&#8217;m also very sorry for what you&#8217;ve been through. Though I know  none of the details, I can relate to your pain.</p>
<p>As you may know, I went through similar circumstances when I was your age. [Link removed]</p>
<p>I dated a lot before I married Jessica&#8217;s birth father. And I had my heart broken (and broke a lot of hearts) before getting emotionally and physically involved with him. It&#8217;s hard to explain how easy it is to get sucked into relationships that are unhealthy once emotions are involved.</p>
<p>Though courtship is certainly no inoculation against deception or sin, at least (depending on how you define courtship) there is a greater chance that discernment is used and hopefully parents or others will see red flags before emotions (and hormones) are heavily engaged. </p>
<p>Blessings to you, sister.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Stacy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacy McDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 03:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If i had dated instead of courted, the relationship would not have ended in marriage.&quot;

You can&#039;t know this for sure. 

In fact, two of my daughters experienced courtships that did not end in marriage, and the fact that they courted proved to be a HUGE protection. Their hearts were guarded and as a result they were not heartbroken when the relationships ended.

In addition, if they had not been committed to guarding their hearts and bodies, they could have gotten so caught up in the romance (as well as other things) that they wouldn&#039;t have been able to clearly see some of the HUGE red flags that were there. And by the time they did, it may have been too late. We are very grateful for God&#039;s guidance in it all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If i had dated instead of courted, the relationship would not have ended in marriage.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t know this for sure. </p>
<p>In fact, two of my daughters experienced courtships that did not end in marriage, and the fact that they courted proved to be a HUGE protection. Their hearts were guarded and as a result they were not heartbroken when the relationships ended.</p>
<p>In addition, if they had not been committed to guarding their hearts and bodies, they could have gotten so caught up in the romance (as well as other things) that they wouldn&#8217;t have been able to clearly see some of the HUGE red flags that were there. And by the time they did, it may have been too late. We are very grateful for God&#8217;s guidance in it all.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Stacy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacy McDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 03:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think if we define courtship as a semi-engagement then we may be asking for trouble. I do wish there was a better word than &quot;courtship,&quot; as this means so many different things to so many different people. But courtship, as our family defines it, should be the &quot;deliberate pursuit of marriage.&quot; Motive matters. It doesn&#039;t mean that it will always end in marriage, but marriage needs to be the goal, not perpetual romance. When young people guard their hearts, they&#039;re using discretion, and this is a great protection, as well as a biblical trait for any Christian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if we define courtship as a semi-engagement then we may be asking for trouble. I do wish there was a better word than &#8220;courtship,&#8221; as this means so many different things to so many different people. But courtship, as our family defines it, should be the &#8220;deliberate pursuit of marriage.&#8221; Motive matters. It doesn&#8217;t mean that it will always end in marriage, but marriage needs to be the goal, not perpetual romance. When young people guard their hearts, they&#8217;re using discretion, and this is a great protection, as well as a biblical trait for any Christian.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Natalie Nyquist</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalie Nyquist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 16:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I am saying that there is a strong theme in courtship/betrothal/purity relationship teaching and practice that says a relationship should lead to marriage. In practice, courtships do end, but it is a much bigger deal than if a dating relationship ends, because of the level of seriousness and commitment involved. This level of commitment is designed to protect hearts--which only works if the courtship leads to marriage and the marriage stays intact. 

My purpose in writing this piece was not to say dating is the answer. It is only to offer thoughts on what happens when courtship fails to deliver what so many claim it promises. Nothing more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I am saying that there is a strong theme in courtship/betrothal/purity relationship teaching and practice that says a relationship should lead to marriage. In practice, courtships do end, but it is a much bigger deal than if a dating relationship ends, because of the level of seriousness and commitment involved. This level of commitment is designed to protect hearts&#8211;which only works if the courtship leads to marriage and the marriage stays intact. </p>
<p>My purpose in writing this piece was not to say dating is the answer. It is only to offer thoughts on what happens when courtship fails to deliver what so many claim it promises. Nothing more.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Natalie Nyquist</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Natalie Nyquist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 16:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If i had dated instead of courted, the relationship would not have ended in marriage. It is because of the serious nature and heavy front-end commitment of courtship that discourages break-ups far more than dating does. Does that make sense?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If i had dated instead of courted, the relationship would not have ended in marriage. It is because of the serious nature and heavy front-end commitment of courtship that discourages break-ups far more than dating does. Does that make sense?</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Romantique Photography</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Romantique Photography]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 15:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, do you truly believe that if you had dated your ex-husband instead of courting him, that your marriage would not have ended in heartbreak?

I think we all have a tendency to blame the process instead of the sin of man.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, do you truly believe that if you had dated your ex-husband instead of courting him, that your marriage would not have ended in heartbreak?</p>
<p>I think we all have a tendency to blame the process instead of the sin of man.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When Courtship Fails by Romantique Photography</title>
		<link>http://pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/comment-page-1/#comment-2222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Romantique Photography]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 15:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuethebeauty.com/?p=2909#comment-2222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for your kind reply. And please know that I can see where you&#039;re coming from, though we may disagree on this topic.

Yes, I have been through a courtship that didn&#039;t end in marriage. But (and I say this in all truth.) my heart was not broken...we got to know one another on a friendship level and we both decided to go our separate ways...still friends! 

One of my sisters also went through a courtship (that progressed to engagement.) before that ended as well....neither was her heart broken. But I don&#039;t see what this has to do with anything...? Are you saying that there&#039;s people who believe that you should marry the first person you court? Because I do not believe that at all. I&#039;m confused...but the internet can be such a confusing place since we tend to not know where people are coming from or what they mean without voice inflections. :-)

All of that aside, what I&#039;m basically trying to communicate, is this: There are far more marriages that have failed horribly and miserably when the couple dated then marriages where the couple courted. So we can&#039;t blame a failed marriage on either courtship *or* dating. God uses each of our circumstances to further His will and I don&#039;t think that we can say that a marriage failed because of courtship or dating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your kind reply. And please know that I can see where you&#8217;re coming from, though we may disagree on this topic.</p>
<p>Yes, I have been through a courtship that didn&#8217;t end in marriage. But (and I say this in all truth.) my heart was not broken&#8230;we got to know one another on a friendship level and we both decided to go our separate ways&#8230;still friends! </p>
<p>One of my sisters also went through a courtship (that progressed to engagement.) before that ended as well&#8230;.neither was her heart broken. But I don&#8217;t see what this has to do with anything&#8230;? Are you saying that there&#8217;s people who believe that you should marry the first person you court? Because I do not believe that at all. I&#8217;m confused&#8230;but the internet can be such a confusing place since we tend to not know where people are coming from or what they mean without voice inflections. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>All of that aside, what I&#8217;m basically trying to communicate, is this: There are far more marriages that have failed horribly and miserably when the couple dated then marriages where the couple courted. So we can&#8217;t blame a failed marriage on either courtship *or* dating. God uses each of our circumstances to further His will and I don&#8217;t think that we can say that a marriage failed because of courtship or dating.</p>
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